Raising Leaders 2 Part 3 – Lawson Perdue and Max Cornell

Raising Leaders 2 Part 3

Raising Leaders 2 Part 3 with Pastors Lawson Perdue and Max Cornell. Explore 2 Timothy chapter 3 as we discover how to model the Gospel in everyday life.

Destined to Win 8-part CD series from Pastor Lawson Perdue

Destined to Win

When Jesus saved you, your destiny changed completely! He radically transformed us and brought us from death to life, from sin to righteousness, and from defeat to victory. Pastor Lawson goes through the book of Ephesians in detail and shows us exactly why we are destined to win. We are no longer fighting to be overcomers, we are made victorious through Jesus and any weapon formed against us will not prosper! Jesus came to give us life and have that life more abundantly! Because of God and his great love, we are destined to win!

Raising Leaders 2 Part 3 Transcript

Praise the Lord friends. I’m so glad that you’ve connected with us today and you’re tuned in. I’m here with my good friend Pastor Max Cornell from Charis Church in Kansas City. And we’re gonna be sharing on raising leaders from second Timothy chapter three. We’re gonna talk about modeling the gospel. Paul says follow those who you’ve seen their faith and continue in the things that you’ve learned from them. And they’re gonna produce good things in your life. Blessings. Thank God friends, I’m glad that you’re with us today. I’m here with Pastor Max Cornell from Charis Church in Kansas City. Max has been pastor in Charis Church and pioneered it about five to six years ago. And before that he was my assistant pastor at Charis Christian Center for three years. Tremendous man of God, tremendous blessing when he worked for me. And he’s been blessed in Kansas City. I know he’s a tremendous blessing to those in Kansas City. If you’re in Kansas city visit Max’s church, Charis Church, out in the Western part of Kansas City there. Great community, great teaching of the word of God. And I’ll tell you Max lives it. And sometimes you’re hearing one thing and people are living another, but I’ll tell you for Max, you’re hearing one thing and he’s living it. Praise God and that works for me.

Thank you so much for having me pastor. It’s great to be here and get to share with your viewers a little bit. And the same thing I can say of you. You model the Christian life in such a powerful way and that’s really what we’re talking about in these lessons. It’s not just theology or teaching some principles. These things have to be lived and we have to see other people live it. We have to see examples of it, right? And when we see that it really translates and transfers into our own lives.

Amen. Paul told Timothy and we were just reading this, be an example of the believers. And he says in all these different areas and we wanna continue to be examples of the believers. We’re gonna jump into chapter three, second Timothy chapter three where it’s talking about, you know, being stable leaders in an unstable environment. Now if that ever is true, it was true in their day. But it is true today. If we’ve ever lived in an unstable environment, unstable economically, unstable governmentally. You know unstable, you know, it’s just crazy times that we live in.

Perilous times, yeah.

Yeah. But we can be stable even though the environment around us is unstable. So he says this know also in the last days, perilous hard pressed difficult times will come. Men will be selfish, covetous, bolsters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to their parents, unthankful, and unholy. You know what he puts right with unholiness unthankfulness. We need to remember to be thankful. So many people have forgotten to be thankful for what they have.

I think that’s maybe the primary problem in, in a lot of our culture is a lack of thankfulness. We’ve lost sight of particularly, in my opinion in America, a lot of us have lost sight of, of the tremendous sacrifices that so many men and women have made throughout the centuries to give us the freedom that we have. And we, we need to be thankful. And the more thankful we are, the more we keep our eyes on Jesus.


And the more we, the more we move forward into what he has for us.

Amen, so we wanna, you know, we celebrate Thanksgiving as a nation once a year. I believe we should celebrate Thanksgiving every day of the year.

Particularly as a Christian.

As a believer we have so much to be thankful for. You know one time I was going through a really hard time economically and I had a lot of cattle. I had a lot of debt and there was a huge blizzard. And I was doing everything. I speak into it leaving and it just kept, and I lost about a quarter million dollars. It was a miracle that I didn’t go broke.


But the Lord told me Lawson look at what you have and not what you don’t have. And I laid on my couch in the middle of the night and I thanked God for my children, for my wife, for my church, for every good and positive thing in my life. And God brought me through that. And then, you know, I know the scripture says if a thief be found he’s gotta repay seven times. So you know what I just started believing God. And I got my quarter million back seven times over. It took me a few years, but you know what that’s faith. We just keep believing, we just keep going. We don’t quit. He, he also just defines a time, verse three, without natural affection we see that. Truth breakers, people who don’t keep their word. You know what your word is your bond. Proverbs says a good name is rather to be chosen than, than great riches. I’ve had ministers of the gospel tell me we’re gonna do this and then they don’t. And they use some lame brain excuse or blame it on somebody else. Your word is your bond. If you say you’re gonna do something you ought to follow through.


If you don’t follow through you oughta go and make an explanation why you can’t follow through. And you know he just says this is, it just proves what’s in you. Sometimes there’s a test going on. I got some people there’s tests going on. They don’t really know it, but there’s, and they haven’t passed very well. But anyway, some of ’em passed. Well, some of ’em haven’t, but he’s, and I think there’s a lot of times there are tests. Even with our relationship with God, we don’t always know what that is. He says truth breakers. They don’t keep their word, false accusers, incontinent. They have no control of fleshly appetites and desires fierce. We don’t wanna be like this. Despisers of those who are good. Do not despise good men. I know some people they hold grudges and they’re angry and they hate good people. And you know, there’s just no place in our life for offense.


To let it remain. There’s no place in our life, you know, to despise people who are good, no place.

You always tell me that offense is the quickest way. out of the ministry.

It take you right straight outta the ministry, right straight outta your destiny.

Yeah, it’s true.

And I’ve watched that happen. You know when you were working for me, I had a young man that was volunteering and he came in and he was offended. I said listen, you don’t need to be, you don’t need to be offended. And he got offended because he heard me talking to my worship leader about one of my worship leader, Cason Cruz was, and I’m still great friends with Cason, love Cason. He’s a worship leader at another church now, but a great man of God, about a friend of his. And I was talking about Andrew, it was Andrew King. He heard me, overheard this conversation. He thought it was about a different Andrew and he got totally offended. Now I was considering taking him from volunteer and paying him, which is a big deal for me at that point in time where we were in the ministry. And he came in, I said listen, you’ve heard wrong. You’re about offended about something that did not even happen.


You don’t even understand what this conversation was about. You’re totally, you’ve taken it completely wrong. And I said you really need to let this go. He went ahead with the offense. He quit his volunteer position. He came in about six months later. I remember you talking to him. He was actually demon possessed.

Or oppressed.

Yeah, yeah.

You know I don’t wanna say possessed ’cause I don’t take that term lightly, but he was depressed in his soul. And he was definitely dealing with a lot of demonic influence and I believe if he would’ve took my word right, got over something that really didn’t even happen.


And not taken the offense, stayed there, he never would’ve went to that depth and he never, as far as I know never really recovered from that. And that’s, that’s a really tragic thing. We don’t want those things to happen.

We don’t.

But, but those things sometimes happen.

Yeah, well and that’s why Paul’s telling Timothy these things, these are great fatherly advice is we, we don’t hang onto offense, we let go of it. We forgive people. And you know, unforgiveness is like when we have a wound in our heart and if we hold onto the offense, we hold onto the unforgiveness, it’s like holding the wound open and not letting it be healed.


And so we have to, we have to learn to let go and just go on with the Lord. Jesus, Jesus paid for it.


And so we just let it, we forgive.

We let it go, Pete, you know people are people. They’re gonna make mistakes.

I make mistakes.

My, my, my, you know my son Aaron works for me and his wife Heather. They’re sometimes amazed at how I forgive people. Other people are harder for me to forgive. I’ll be honest, I’ll be honest. You know I’m still redneck, hot blooded, whatever you wanna say.

Yeah, yeah.

But they’re like, they did that to you and yet you just blessed them. Yeah.


Because why? Well they’re a human being, you know they’re gonna make mistakes. I don’t deal as well with other things. It just depends you know? But at, at the same point in time we’ve gotta let go of offense. He says, there’ll be traitors. There’ll be people that are proud. Heady, high minded, lovers of pleasure more than lovers of God. Many how many distractions do we have to the gospel?

For sure.

You know there’s so many things going on to entertain men’s emotions in their times. So on and so forth. He says having a form of godliness. Now this is a strong one, but denying the power there of how many people have a form of Godliness but deny its power. He says from such turn away. You know, the Bible actually says this in the book of Proverbs. It says he that remains in the congregation of the dead has wandered from the way of understanding.


You know I’m going to this dead church ’cause I’m gonna get the pastor saved and all these people straightened out. You’ve wandered from the way of understanding. I’m sorry. But he says they have a form of godliness but they deny the power. We need the power of the gospel.


And you know Paul said when I preached to you, my speech and preaching was not with enticing words of man’s wisdom, but it was in demonstration of the spirit and of power. And thank God we have the power of God. I know you’ve seen a lot of miracles in your ministry, in your church. And we’ve seen a lot of miracles here. Tell us about some of those.

Yeah, we’ve seen, actually recently we’ve seen a lot of amazing things happen. Recently we had a girl, this blows my mind pastor. There’s a girl in our church that she’d broken her ankle on one of these hover boards. And so they had to go in and surgically implant a screw and metal in there to keep it stable and whatever. And it restricted her motion and caused her pain. And anyway at this special healing service we had, she was receiving prayer and she started moving her foot and she got full range of motion. And then the screws in there disappeared because she could feel them with her fingers before and then they’re, and then they’re gone. And in that same meeting we saw a man healed of 23 years of chronic bronchitis. He had to use an inhaler every day. We saw another man healed of the effects, after effects of Covid. Like he, he, he was on all kinds of oxygen and stuff. Couldn’t walk across the room without doing a bunch of oxygen. And so it’s, it’s amazing. And Paul said that signs and wonders are what allow us to fully preach the gospel and really without signs and wonders we haven’t fully preached the gospel.

Yeah and demonstration of the spirit and power. So, you know, we need to, we need to demonstrate the gospel as well as preach the gospel.


You know they were having some kind of Christian discussion at another place here in town. And they, a pastor friend of mine went to talk about yeah miracles and these things are for today. And then another one was talking from the idea that all these things have passed away which I could take ’em about three or four people in my church and, and their doctors and just show ’em right now what that is a complete lie.

Yeah, yeah.

But at the same point in time, you know cessationist. We had, we had a man come from another church and he likes what we teach on healing. And you know he went back, he took some things from my son Aaron, asked his leadership at his church could I teach this? And they don’t tell people what they really believe is they said well don’t tell anybody but we’re cessationist. We don’t believe any, of any of this. We don’t believe it exists today.


And it’s, I can’t believe that. I mean that our ministry wouldn’t be our ministry without the power of God.


Without the power of the holy spirit and, and so it’s just sad that people get caught up in all these kind of crazy things. But my son Aaron later asked him well why don’t you come to our church? And he said well because of what, what you teach on money. Well they oughta read the Bible and see what the Bible says. You know the Bible has a lot to say about finances, about money, about prosperity, about increase. And you know if you don’t take the Bible position what position are you taking? And you know, we say that we believe the Bible, but do we really believe it? And we, we need to act like it’s true. And so he says there are people that they have a form of godliness but they deny its power, from such turn away. He says of this sort are they who creep into houses and lead away captive silly women laden with sins and led away with different kinds of lust. They’re always learning and never able to come to a knowledge of the truth. Now that’s a big one. Always learning and never able to come to a knowledge of the truth. There are always questioning, questioning, questioning. I want some new revelation. I’ve got a revelation. Do what Jesus told you to do last and keep doing it until he tells you what to do next. And you know I live by that principle and it works.

That’s a great word. So much I think air in the body of Christ comes from trying to get some kind of new fad doctrine. And there’s a temptation especially in our social media age to try to get likes and clicks and be edgy and all this kind of stuff. And I love trying to reach people in different ways, but we don’t need to try to press the scripture beyond what it says to try to get clicks and stuff like that.

It’s crazy. I know some people and they’re just loving people because they, well they got so many followers and yet these people are, some of the stuff they’re preaching it’s like almost heresy. And it’s just like well, why, why even follow them people? I’m not gonna follow. I don’t care.

Yeah, yeah.

You know? But we need to just know what we know right?


Paul said he was preaching and he saw this, you know this marker and it said to the unknown God, you know, that ever learning and never able to come to a knowledge of the truth. No there’s, there’s a God. And you can know him, praise God. We have a relationship with him and we can know that truth. We’ll be back in just a few seconds so stay tuned. Praise the Lord friends. I am so excited to be sharing with you this great teaching I’m sharing from my series on first and second Timothy on raising leaders, part one and part two. Also my wife’s series on Unless the Lord Builds the House. And then we have a special edition Faith that is Taught and Caught by my wife Barbara. And you know what? We are making these things available to you because we know the principles in these will help your family just like they’ve been a blessing to us. And you know we’re not talking about something that doesn’t work. We’re talking about something that we have proved in our own family, that we have proved in our church for years and years and years. You know what, the word of God is true. And when you live your life and conduct your family by principles of the scriptures, you will find the blessing that God promises in his work. So we want you to call us today and get this product. Thanks. Praise the Lord. We’re teaching from second Timothy chapter three, and we’re talking about raising leaders. And he goes on here in second Timothy chapter three verse eight and nine. It says as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses so these resist the truth, men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith. Now that’s a strong statement.

It is.

To be reprobate.


That you have absolute rejected faith. I don’t believe that anybody loses the faith so to speak.


But I believe that you can leave the faith. I believe you can reject your faith in Jesus. And I believe that because of Hebrews chapter six and Hebrews chapter 10 and so on and so forth. But that’s a question you know that people have argued about for years, but I don’t believe anybody just loses their faith, but you can reject it. And so I think he, when he is talking about reprobate concerning faith, he’s talking about someone that has rejected their faith.

For sure.

In Jesus.

Well and some of these were people that, you know, he hung out with that were his, he talks in a little bit about how people have abandoned him, forsaken him. And you know, so it’s a serious thing.

Right? I have later and we’ll talk about this probably in tomorrow’s broadcast, but there’s an aspect where you need to hang around with people who encourage you and strengthen you and help you. And you need to stay away from people that distract you. And so, you know my grandmother taught me this, birds of a feather flock together. And then I had a preacher say this, flocks fly to the same place. And first Corinthians 15 verse 33 says be not deceived, evil communications corrupt good manners. I like the next verse. It says wake up to righteousness and do not sin. So we need to be around people who help us wake up to righteousness. Who help, help us wake up to who we are in Christ and stay away from people that are distracting us and causing us to move away from the greater truths of the gospel. He says these people will proceed no farther for their folly will be made known to all men as theirs was. But he says you have fully known my doctrine. Paul said I had a doctrine, something I believed and that affected my manner of life. If your doctrine doesn’t affect your manner of life, maybe it’s not very good doctrine. Or maybe you got the wrong doctrine. He says your purpose, I believe that we have doctrine that affects our manner of life and that we’re living with purpose. We’re living with purpose to, to a sense that it pushes us into faith. I’m believing God today for more than I’ve ever believed him for in my life.


Praise God.


People say well you have so much. Well there’s a lot ahead of me. I’m believing for a lot more, amen. Dr. Summrall said that he lived with this, Dr. Lester Summrall, this principle in mind. He said nothing that I have done or nothing that I’m doing is nearly as great as what Jesus is gonna do through me. Praise God in the future. I know I was sitting in a service the other day. You’ll appreciate this. I had Barry Bennett as a special speaker last Wednesday night. He was speaking, my son Aaron was gone, and he said something and I kind of said it under my breath, but I said you ain’t seen nothing yet. I mean, but it came outta the inside of me that praise God we are still moving forward. We’re believing God for more than we’ve ever seen, more than we’ve ever done to affect more people, to affect the kingdom of God in a greater way. And I had one of my secretaries sitting behind me in the row and she told me after the service, she said pastor you said that quiet but I heard it. And she said when you said it the holy ghost hit me. I could feel the power of God, the anointing was all over it. Well, I meant it. It came out of the inside.

That’s awesome.

Now you haven’t seen anything yet, praise God. We’ve, we’ve come a lot. We’ve accomplished a lot. But listen I, you haven’t seen anything yet. We’re gonna do more and more as we move forward. And so he said my purpose is directing my faith and I’m moving forward in faith to fulfill these purposes long suffering. You know there may be some challenges. I’m walking in love, in patience, persecutions and afflictions which came to me at Antioch and Iconium at Lystra. Man, you read about that in Acts chapter 13, 14. I think it’s over in that area. Paul goes to one place and they run him out of town. The next place they run him out of town. He goes the next place and they stone him and leave him for dead. And I think I could tell somebody’s dead. The disciples gathered around him, raise him from the dead. He goes right back.


Retraces his steps. Preaches the gospel where they just run him off, where they just stoned him, goes to the next town where they run him out of before that, preaches the gospel, goes back to the other town, preaches the gospel. He just won’t quit.



Hard to get rid of Paul.

And then he just keeps going amen. And so weebles wobble but they won’t fall down you know? I mean he has that resistant life of God on the inside of him. And he says which persecutions I endured. Man they stoned him. And he says but out of them all the Lord delivered me. God delivered him.

That’s right.

Man isn’t this amazing? And he says all that will live godly. Sometimes we forget about this. In Christ Jesus we’ll suffer persecution. Not everybody’s gonna sing your praise all the time.


Not everybody’s gonna agree with you all the time, but you know what another person’s head is the wrong place to have your happiness.

For sure.

We need to keep trusting Jesus. And he says evil men and seducers will wax work worse and worse deceiving and being deceived, but continue in the things that you have learned and been assured of knowing of whom you learned it. Now comment on that.

Yeah well I just think he’s bringing it back to what we’ve been saying this whole time is that he’s encouraging Timothy to remember his example. And he’s saying look, and you know Timothy was the apostolic leader in Ephesus. He probably oversaw like a million people. It was a hard job. He had lots and there was lots of persecution. There was all kinds of difficulty. And you know he tells him at one point drink a little wine, which we don’t always endorse. But what he’s saying is Timothy you got, you got all kinds of problems. You got stress in your life. You need some practical wisdom and you need to remember the faith you saw modeled in me. You need to remind yourself of the way I held up under these persecutions so that you can do the same thing. And this is what actually, we see this model all throughout church history. There was a, a man named Athenasius in the fourth century. And he was talking about, he made this argument about how we know Jesus is raised from the dead. And he said one of the ways we know is because Christians aren’t scared of death anymore. The martyrs for the first 300 years face death with unaccountable courage. And when they’d go up there to stand and, and face death, the Romans had put ’em in the Coliseum with beasts, they’d burn ’em, they’d do all kinds of things. But as they’d stand there, they’d remind themselves of the martyrs that came before them. They think about how they bore up under that. And that’s what Timothy’s saying. He’s saying remember how I stood in faith, how I didn’t back down, how I wasn’t scared. And that, that gives him courage to go forward, believe God.

You know, in the grace room, there is a true aspect of the grace message. I am a grace preacher.


I believe in the message of grace, but there’s some whack jobs out there.

Sure, sure.

And so I like to bring it back to this. You know we see people that have got way off, but he says continue in the things you’ve learned and been assured of knowing of whom you learned them. You know I learned grace from Andrew Wommack. Now Wendell Parr used to say he’s the most legalistic grace man you’ll ever see, but you know what? He is living the gospel. We talked about this earlier in the week in the broadcast that Andrew, he has great faith because his heart is not condemning him. And you know if your heart condemns you, if your conscious is here, conscious is not going the right direction, you’re not gonna be able to operate in that great faith. So I can, I can receive from Andrew Wommack the message of grace because he’s living the gospel. He’s a living demonstration of what life in Christ looks like. I believe even with my own natural children and spiritual sons also, spiritual daughters, they can see in my life. You know, I’ve been there, I’ve passed a lot of tests over time. And I’m, I’ve continued to remain steady and steadfast and faithful. You know I love this scripture at Psalm one 19 verse 32, but it says I will run the way of your commandments when you have enlarged my heart. You know when God changes your spirit, you’re gonna walk in the ways of God. And it’s not difficult. You can’t live the Christian life in your own strength or power. It’s God living this life through you. It’s the spirit of Christ living it through you. But he says from a holy child, from a child in verse 15, you have known the holy scriptures. We’ve studied the word, we’ve stayed at it, which are able to make you wise to salvation through faith in Jesus. He says all the scripture is given by the inspiration of God and is profitable. It’s God breath, God breathed it into the hearts of men. It’s profitable for doctrine. What we believe needs to come from the scripture. For reproof, reproof means you prove someone wrong like in a court of law. You use the scripture if you’re gonna reproof, you don’t use prophecy, you don’t use the gifts of the spirit. You don’t use some wacky dream. You know, you use the word of God. And he says scripture is given for doctrine reproof. Correction. If somebody’s going the wrong way, you correct them with the scripture. Instruction and righteousness. You’re the righteousness of God in Christ. I’m the righteousness of God in Christ. But we take instruction from the scripture.

Amen. We are all righteous on the inside. And we need direction though from the word about how to live that outwardly.

Amen. And so we keep learning, I’m still learning. You know, people say, oh, I, I listen. The more, you know, the more you know you don’t know.

Yeah, amen to that.

And you know what, there’s a lot that I don’t know. You remind me of that. So he says that the man of God may be complete. He says all scripture are so follow people that you know here the gospel’s really working. Right, stick with the word of God. It’s the word of God that gives you what you believe. You know, corrects you, instructs you, that you can be perfect or mature and thoroughly furnished. We’re thoroughly furnished. We don’t lack in anything. Unto all good works. Praise the Lord.

Praise the Lord.

We’ll share a little bit before we go off.

Well I was just thinking, as you were telling that story about earlier, about your difficult time, when you lost all that money and you had to be thankful and you know, these stories, they make, they shape part of how we live. And so as I listened to that story, it became something on the inside of me that when I went through a very difficult time, right after we bought that building, I was waking up in a cold sweat with all this, I was worried about losing my house and stuff. But I, I thought about that story. And I thought about I need to be thankful for the good things in my life. And that turned that thing around for me emotionally.

Amen, praise God. We can learn from our friend. And we can see the gospel modeled. Amen. If you need prayer we have prayer ministers that are ready to pray for you. We would love to hear from you, just give us a call today. Thanks so much and blessings.

[Narrator] What does it take to raise godly children? In this package containing Unless the Lord Builds the House, Faith that is Taught and Caught and Raising Leaders parts one and two, you’ll learn spiritual principles and practical advice to help you raise up the next generation. You can get this special package for $49 when you call 719-418-4000, or visit CharisChristianCenter.com.

Friends, I certainly hope that you’ve enjoyed the program today and it’s ministering to you to move into that which God has for you. And I want to say a great big thank you to all of our partners for helping us share this gospel across the United States and across the world. It’s because of our partners that we can take this message of grace and faith around the world. If you would like to join our partners and receive that blessing give us a call today. Blessings.

[Narrator] Thanks for watching Grace for Today. This broadcast has been made possible by our faithful partners. If you would like to become a partner, need prayer, or have a question, please call us at 719-418-4000 or to partner online go to CharisChristianCenter.com/give. You can write us at PO box 63733 Colorado Springs, Colorado 80962. See you next time on Grace for Today.

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