Grace Life Part 12 – Lawson And Barbara Perdue

Grace Life Part 12 – Lawson and Barbara Perdue

The Grace Life Part 12 with Pastors Lawson and Barbara Perdue. In this episode of Grace For Today you’ll learn the difference between living in Grace or living in legalism.

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The Grace Life Package includes some of our favorite teachings from Pastor Lawson and Andrew Wommack, about living a life full of the Grace of God. This bundle consists of Grace Life and Revelation of Grace in your choice of CD, USB, or as a Digital Download:

Grace Life Part 12 Transcription

Friends, I’m so glad that you tuned in to the broadcast today. We’re gonna be sharing from Galatians 4 on the two sons of Abraham, Ishmael and Isaac. And we’re gonna be talking about the law and grace. And one thing that we share at the end of this broadcast is how that legalistic people persecute those that are born of grace. But thank God for grace. It frees us from legalism and lets us rest in God’s love. Blesses. It’s so good to have everyone with us today. I have my beautiful wife, Barbara, and we’re talking about grace brings you into authority and maturity. And we began in Galatians 4 in yesterday’s broadcast, and we talked about how God sent Jesus to purchase us who were under the law that we might receive the adoption of sons. So the way that we relate to God is fundamentally different in the new covenant than it was in the old covenant. Because in the old covenant we related to God through slavery. But in the new covenant we relate to God through sonship. And you talked about how this gospel is really about relationship with God through Christ. And he went on to say, “Because you’re sons, God has sent forth a spirit in your heart crying, Daddy God.” Wherefore you’re no more slave but a son. And if a son, then an heir of God.” So we receive an inheritance, we receive the blessing, we receive the good things of God because we’re the children of God. And not because we keep the law, not as a slave. A slave has to perform to receive from the master.

You know, as you were sharing that, it just made me think of a show that was on years ago, I think it was called something like “Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous.” And sometimes people might’ve watched that silly show and said, “Well, why couldn’t I have been born into a family like that?”

Oh wow.

Well, praise God, once we come into the knowledge and relationship with Jesus Christ, your lifestyle that you were born into, that you are an heir of, has no limits-

Praise God.

To God’s goodness and what he wants to do for you.

That’s awesome. And you know, really when you understand the gospel, we were born into health. We were born into wealth.

That’s right.

We were born into authority. We were born into righteousness. We were born into peace. And when you understand the gospel, it’ll change your life.

I like that. You know, we’ve talked about this. We’ve recently talked to my father who at this time is 87 years old, and he has told us over and over for the last six months, he’s like, “I’m happy I have no pain anywhere in my body.” He’s not on any medication of any kind, and he’s a very healthy, strong, active person. And I believe it’s again, when we come into a relationship with Jesus Christ, we are heirs with God through Jesus.


And we have an amazing lifestyle thanks to Jesus.


And you know, there’s so many things that God miraculously has done for us.


And it’s just amazing how he guides us to good things.

Right, and he’s actually talking about coming into maturity, and then he talks about, and we talked about this yesterday, it’s not about law keeping, it’s not about who you are, I am, or somebody else is, even these Judaizers. It’s really about Jesus. And he makes this statement in verse 19, “My little children, whom I travail in birth until Christ be formed in you.” You know, really the goal of the gospel is just let Jesus live his life big in you. And he goes on and tells this story about Abraham’s two sons and he says, “This is a type of grace in the law.”

But I have a question for you because you just said that. Why do you think some people have a hard time just letting Jesus live in them and just trust him? Like I don’t understand. Do you have any of all these years of being in full-time ministry, why some people have a hard time getting that picture? I know you just talked about going to the gym this morning and talking with someone who was trying to talk you out of your faith, which is I think just hilarious.

And he’s a very knowledgeable man. And I really don’t know. He’s very educated. I don’t know whether he’s just trying to challenge my thinking because I think he knows a lot of things we believe and teach as I’ve shared with him or I don’t know where he’s really at personally with things, ’cause I think he actually agrees with me on a lot of things and he understands a lot of the Scripture. He’s a Jewish person and I have a lot of respect for him. And it may be that he’s a believer, but he’s just trying to challenge me with where I’m at and to see, so as I get to know him more-

Well, I’m sure God has an open door there, but I’m just thinking of another minister that we have come to our church and he’s kind of touched on this ’cause as you were reading that Scripture and talking, I’m thinking of the word that comes to me. Maybe would pride keep people back from really moving forward in this amazing relationship that you could have with Jesus?

Well, I think pride will hinder anyone, and I think it’s pride to think that you can do something in addition to Jesus. I think it’s really arrogant. In fact, I know some very legalistic people and they claim to have faith in Christ, and I believe that they’re born again. But they kind of have their own set of rules.

[Barbara] And they are very arrogant.

That they’ve added to Jesus.

Because they use that word a lot, discipline. You know, if you want victory in your life, you need to be disciplined.

And I’m a very disciplined person. In fact, we have this series on the Revelation of Grace.

I’m laughing because the way they’re putting it is it’s really unrealistic the expectations they have for other people.

But I taught this with Andrew Wommack on the Revelation of grace, and I talked about how before I got a revelation of grace. I’m a very disciplined person and, you know, I go to the gym and work out seven days a week almost always, okay?

I believe God desires for us to have at least one day off, if not others.

Pretty, pretty disciplined. But Andrew actually said, and I talked about how before I got a revelation of grace, I was really disciplined, but I about drove you crazy. And you thought you never really measured up, that you felt like you were never good enough, which is what you feel like around some of these very legalistic people. But at the end of the day, I’ve seen some of them really fail. And I really love them. I’m not condemning them, you know, because the gospel isn’t about us. It’s about Jesus. And when we put our faith in Jesus and we don’t really know what another person’s been through, we don’t know, you know, what the surrounding circumstances are, right? And this is grace. This is the gospel. Jesus said, “Judge not that you be not judged. Why are you picking about the, you know, log in, you know, the splinter in somebody else’s eye when you have a log in your own?” And so we need to look at that. And many times we judge other people by their actions. We judge ourself by our intentions. So I wanna minister grace, right? But I think a lot of people, they’re really kind of enamored with the law and they haven’t really died to self. ‘Cause there’s not only a death to sin, right, but there’s a death to the law, and death to law and death to self are a lot alike. And Paul calls the ministry of the law in 2 Corinthians 3 a ministry of condemnation. They get very condemning, right? He calls it a ministry of death. But he also says there is a glory to the law. And I think people kind of get enamored with themselves. They get enamored with performance. They get thinking it’s about something in addition to Jesus, when really not. The gospel’s really just about Jesus.

And so if you have people like that around you or in your life, number one, you can pray for them. I love that we can look at people, they always say through the eyes of Jesus, but really just pray for them. I don’t have to absorb and worry about however the other people are living and make it ruin my day if they’re under the law or trying to put it down on me. We can pray for them. And then another thing you mentioned, during that season in our life when we were first married, and a lot of it was from the upbringing we had and maybe different things that took place in your family. You know, your father died when you were in high school and then your grandmother died. And when I met you, when you were 19 years old, you were running an entire farming and ranching business by yourself through just different circumstances in life. A lot of responsibility had been put on you. And I understood that you were saved. I understood that you knew the Word of God. But another thing that helped us through that season when we were both, you know, first married and young and coming from a very legalistic background, what helped me is having my own relationship secure with Jesus.


And really understanding that that was the most important thing is, what did Jesus think about me? And I love that his love is unconditional. And so I could have patience and pray and believe for you. And then every now and then I acted in the flesh too and said, “Hey, if you wanna use the Word of God to judge one another, I know Scripture. too.” And I don’t don’t wanna advise anyone to do that, but I’m like, “Hey, two can do this.” But it really is being secure in your own relationship with Jesus, and that’s what helps us with others.

Well, and I was actually somewhat insecure in some of that. And I think sometimes legalistic people are insecure at the core. But you know, talking about this discipline, I shared this with Andrew, how I was very disciplined, didn’t understand grace, but Andrew Wommack, but he looked at it as a good thing. Now, he was bringing out this because some people use grace as a license to sin, and grace is not a license to sin. Paul says that, “Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound?” in Romans 6:1, “God forbid.” You know, he says we’re dead to sin, free from sin, We have authority over sin, and it’ll kill you.

In other words, what people are saying, “God made me do it or the devil made me do it.” And it’s like the devil, I don’t think so.

The devil can’t make you do a thing when you understand the gospel.

That’s right. But you know, Andrew was talking, because I think he’s seen the opposite, right, the other side of this. And I think if you’re using grace as a license to sin, as an excuse to live a sorry life, you don’t really have a revelation of grace.


And I think if you’re very legalistic, you don’t have a revelation of grace. So there’s two sides to this same coin.

[Barbara] There sure is.

Now, when we look at this in Galatians 4:20-21, he says, “I desire to be present with you to change my voice for I stand in doubt of you.” He’s talking to these people who are trusting their performance, so legalism. “Tell me you that desire to be under the law,” you want to go backwards, “do you hear the law?” And then he begins to use these two children of Abraham as an example of the law and grace.

Can I share something really quick?

Yes, yeah, it’d be great.

I know you have a lot to say, but you know, when you said that, again it just kind of prompted my mind to memory. As we mentioned, we both were raised in more traditional type churches and ministries. And I thank God for them that I learned or was taught the Bible stories. But there was a a point in time where my mother made the big change and took me to one of those new churches where there was lots of rumors, and. you know, it was a spirit-filled church. But the rumors were that people were rolling in the aisles and hanging from the chandeliers. And my mom’s like, “Today we’re going to that church.” And I remember as a 13-year-old teenager, this is gonna be exciting. I’ve always wanted to see people hang from chandeliers and roll on the floor. This is gonna be awesome. And so anyway, but you know what happened? I tell you the difference between legalism and, you know, a church where things are moving. There’s a manifestation.

Spirit of God.

Spirit of God, spirit of grace, the Holy Spirit’s movement. The moment we walked through these doors, I felt like I was hit with a tidal wave of just like something surrounding me and holding me up of just this unconditional love, peace, and joy. This first day that I went to that church or that ministry changed my life forever. And what I wanted to say in all this, I never wanted to go back to the old ways.

[Logan] Oh, glory to God.

I’ve never understood why people would experience something like that and then want to go back. To me that’s like a dog returning to its vomit.

We tend to be comfortable in what we’re familiar with. So I think that’s why a lot of times people, and if you study Christianity, you can see a lot, you can study how God moved in different denominations. But you can see for instance how in the Catholic, and I believe there are Catholic people that know Jesus, right? But you can go see how God moved then. God moved in the Presbyterians, he moved in the Methodists, you know, Catholics, Lutherans, Presbyterians, Baptist, Methodist, you know, all these, there were different moves of the Spirit in all these timeframes. But you can go, you know, and look at the Catholic pattern, right? And you can see that really even in some of your later denominations, and they have went backwards into some things that they didn’t even realize it. And I’m not condemning any of those people because there’s probably areas of my life, right, and I don’t want to go backwards. I wanna move forward into what God has for me. But this is really interesting because the same thing that happened to you when you got involved in the spirit-filled, full gospel work that you said, “Hey, I don’t ever want to go back.”


That is the same thing that happened to me. And inevitably I made a decision as a young child, if I have to drive 100 miles to go to a good spirit-filled Word church, that’s what I’m gonna do. And guess what? We have people that drive 100 miles, 200 miles on a regular basis to attend our church. We’ve had some people come every other week from 900 miles away for a period of time until God opens a door where they have a fellowship. So it’s just amazing, you know, that decisions that we made in our youth that God has honored that. And we see people come from a lot of places. I mean, you know, it’s not uncommon for us to have people from several countries in our church on a Sunday, from several states where they’ve come to receive prayer, to receive healing, to receive miracles, the power of God, different things. And so thank God for his grace and decisions that we make in our own heart, how God honors that in different ways.

That’s right.

So we’re gonna take a short break, we’re gonna be right back, and we’ll be talking in the end of Galatians 4 about Abraham’s two sons. You don’t wanna miss it. Blessings. Friends, I’m gonna be talking about in this series about how grace has revolutionized my life. And you want to get this, because I’m telling you, it changed my home, changed my marriage, changed my children, changed my church, changed my business. Grace has changed about everything about me, and not in a negative way, in a super positive way. My wife Barbara says, “I’m not even like living with the same person, and not negatively, positively.” She said, “I don’t know how I would’ve went on if you would’ve continued on the way that you were going.” But thank God, grace changed me. And do you know what? God is not a respecter of persons. He’s a respecter of faith. But I believe that the grace that’s changed me will change you as you believe the gospel. And I’ve got two things that we’re making available as a package during these teachings. One is my series. It’s a 10-part series on the “Grace Life.” It’s the most in-depth teaching I’ve done. The other one is the “Revelation of Grace” with Andrew Wommack. Blessings. Friends, were back, and I’m so glad you stayed with us. We’re gonna jump into this. Abraham had two sons, Isaac and Ishmael. Ishmael was born first. These two sons really are a picture of the law and grace. Paul is talking about, look at these kids. What do you want in your life? Do you want the law or do you want grace, and what the law produces and what grace produces? And let’s look beginning in verse 22, he says, “It’s written, Abraham had two sons, one by a slave girl, the other by a free woman.” One by Hagar, one by Sarah. “But he who was born of the slave girl was born after the flesh.” Ishmael was never God’s idea. It was Abraham and Sarah’s idea.

They thought they would help God.

Yeah, Abram and Sarah at that point in time, they were trying to help God out. You don’t want to help God out. And I see this happen a lot in churches like ours where people hear the full gospel, they hear the promises of God, and then they try to do all these things to make it happen, you know?

Especially if it doesn’t happen in the first five minutes. Everyone’s used to these microwave moments. If it can’t be zapped in two or three seconds.

I love it when we have instantaneous miracles. But you know, sometimes there’s healings that take a process of time.

That’s right.

But we always believe, no matter what happens, we just keep believing.


There are some things we believed for our kids for years, but we kept believing the Word, and you know what, it worked.

Amen, that’s right.

So the Word works, and if there’s a problem, it’s not with the word, it’s not with Jesus.

That’s right.

It’s not with God. So he says, “He that was born of the slave girl, Hagar, was born after the flesh. He that was born of the free woman, Sarah, was by promise.” You know, Isaac was an absolute miracle. Sarah was 90. There was nothing going on. There was nothing happening physically. She didn’t have a cycle. Abraham was almost 100, he was 99, when Sarah at that point in time conceived, he was 100 when Isaac was born.

I love that. Only God can do these things.


When something looks completely like dead, God can restore, God can always-

That’s exactly what Romans 4 says.

God can always bring life back into a situation. And what’s this, Romans?

Romans 4 says, “Abraham did not consider the deadness of his own body or Sarah’s womb.” He only considered what God said. And what God did was God spoke a word of life into a completely dead situation. It was absolutely impossible in the natural, in the flesh for Abraham and Sarah to have a child at that time.

Doesn’t the Bible tell us what the Word is?

Tell us.

It’s a living Word, quicker, sharper.

It’s alive and powerful.

It’s alive.

Sharper than any two-edged sword. Yeah, Hebrews 4:12, you’re quoting now. He says this is a type, these are an allegory in verse 24. He says, “For these are two covenants,” you know, and he’s talking about the law and grace. He says, “One from Mount Sinai, the law which leads to bondage, slavery,” which is through Hagar. You know, Ishmael for Hagar is in Mount Sinai and Arabia and answers to Jerusalem. “But Jerusalem, which now is and is in bondage with her children.” So he’s saying those who are of the law are answering to those who really are of the Spirit and are of grace. And he says Hagar still in bondage with her children, Hagar answered to Sarah. Sarah, you know, and Abraham, they were in charge, right?


No, in charge as far as they were the ones who ruled.


And he says grace really rules over law. Grace rules over legalism. And he says, “But Jerusalem, which is above is free, is the mother of us all.” I used to have this guy in church and he’d say, “The church is our mother.” The church is not our mother. You know what? The gospel of grace is our mother. God is our Father, amen. The gospel of grace is our mother. It’s we heard the gospel and believed it, and then we were born of God. Now, he says, “For it’s written, rejoice you that bear not. Break forth and cry, you barren.” He’s talking about Sarah, she was barren. But now he says, “Break forth and cry, you that travail not, for the desolate has many more children than she which now has a husband.” And he spoke to Sarah, you know. Isaiah 54 is talking about the new covenant. He says, “Enlarge your place, strengthen your stakes, lengthen your cord.” He’s talking about these promises of God, because, you know, Abraham’s seed, God made this promise to Abraham’s seed. And this seed inherited, you know, the earth. They were born into authority and born into all these different things. And he says, “The desolate has many more children than she that has a husband. Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.”

I like that.

It’s not about lot, it’s about promise. Thank God we received the good things of God. It’s not about our performance, it’s about his grace. It’s about the promise of God. This, you know, God made this promise to Abraham. He was 99, almost 100, Sarah was 90. He did not consider the deadness of his own body nor the deadness of Sarah’s womb. But he only considered the word that God spoke.

I like that.

You know, God speaks a word of life into a dead situation. And you may be facing a dead situation financially, physically, emotionally, relationally. But I want you to know it only takes one word from God to change your situation.

That’s right.

And one word from God can change your financial, that, you know, life can change your business. It can change your marriage. It can change your home.

That’s right.

It can change your, you know, all these different things. A word from God.

That’s right.

Thank God for the Word.

God spoke this word to Abram, you know, “Your name will no longer be Abram, but it will be Abraham, for a father of many nations have I made you.” Genesis 17 verse 1 through verse 4 talks about that.

And like you said, he had that word when things looked hopeless or bleak. But you don’t ever look at it that way. You need to keep your joy in the promises that-

Amen, just like we talked about I think maybe in yesterday’s broadcast. That’s right.

1 Peter 1 says, “Believing you rejoice and receiving the end of your faith.” So believing, rejoicing, and receiving, we wanna keep that. Let’s jump through here. We’re almost done. He says, “We as Isaac were children of promise. But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him who was born after the spirit.” Legalistic people tend to persecute other people because they’re caught up in their performance. And a lot of times I think it’s because they’re very insecure. And I’ve seen some legalistic people can be mean. I mean, it’s terrible, and I don’t wanna be that way. I expect people to do, you know, their job, so on, so forth at work. But I don’t wanna be a mean, demanding, demeaning, belittling person.


And so he goes on and says, “He that was born after the spirit even so now it is. So those who are of the law persecute those who are of grace. Even so it is now. Nevertheless, what does the Scripture say? Throw out the slave girl with her son.” You know, we’re not gonna go back to the law to try to be justified after we believed on Jesus. He says, “For the son of the slave girl shall not be heir with the son of the free woman.” It is not about our performance. It is about his grace. And he says, “So then, brethren, we are not children of the slave girl, but of the free.” Thank God we have been set free to live the free life. And that’s what he goes on to say in the next chapter. And we’ll be talking about freedom tomorrow in the broadcast. You don’t wanna miss it. You can actually go to our website and watch it. It should be on there today. And right now, you should be able to go. You can watch, we put at the beginning of the week, we put all our broadcasts up for that week. You can tell your friends. Our website is We have lots of material. We have a great price on today’s package, all these good teachings. This will revolutionize your life. It’s revolutionized our life. It’s revolutionized our marriage.


It’s revolutionized our children. You’ve told me you don’t believe our children would be serving Jesus like they are today unless I would’ve got this revelation of grace.

Of grace. It changed you. It changed how you saw me as your wife and how you treated me and how you treated our sons. So again, there’s hope.

Thank God you kept your hope in Jesus.

That’s right.

And not in me. Some of you may be living with somebody that was like me. I had a good heart. But, listen, I was demanding, I was demeaning, I was belittling. I was all of the above. I was a religious legalist. But praise God, I’ve been set free.


And you know that he goes on and says, “Listen, Jesus set us free to live the free life.” And it’s a lot better to live in this new life. So I wanna just pray for you really quickly. Thank you so much for being part of the broadcast today. And you know what, if you need prayer, be sure to call in with our prayer ministers today. We have lots of miracles at Charis Christian Center, lots of people healed, lots of people saved and filled with the Holy Spirit. If you haven’t received the Holy Spirit, just call in and receive prayer today. We appreciate you. God bless you. And thanks so much for tuning in. Heavenly Father, we thank you for all these who are watching who are connected with us today. And we pray that you administer your grace and strength to them. In the name of Jesus we pray, amen. Blessings. Praise the Lord. Friends, I want to invite you to church this coming Sunday morning, whether you’re in Colorado Springs or whether you’re wherever you’re at. If you’re in Colorado Springs, you can see us Sunday morning at 8:30 or 10:30 AM live. But you can also watch us with our livestream congregation at 8:30 or 10:30 AM, or you can go to our website and get it anytime at

[Announcer] Jesus is the embodiment of grace and truth, and he wants to reign in your life. Grace is what frees us from sin and allows us to accomplish God’s will. Get the “Grace Life” package, which includes the “Grace Life” and “Revelation of Grace,” all for $39. Choose between cd, USB, or digital download when you call 719-418-4000 or visit Thanks for watching “Grace for Today.” This broadcast has been made possible by our faithful partners. If you would like to become a partner, need prayer, or have a question, please call us at 719-418-4000, or to partner online, go to You can write us at P.O. Box 63733, Colorado Springs, Colorado 80962. See you next time on “Grace for Today.”

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